Strong Independent Women & Their Husbands

0:06 You know, what I found interesting though, was the fact that Hillary Clinton was at that same event and you would have to guess that she of all people hates, well, publicly, she probably hates him. I don't know if you hate some privately, but, so, privately. It's probably hates Trump. She was beaten by him in an election, but more importantly, this is the, this is the thing, her husband, while he was in office.

0:47 so humiliated her during a, one of the biggest scandal in our American history. And she even talked about, you know, her standing by her man, which she talked about it, but she actually did stand by him and what, 30 years later, she's still standing by him. So she's still there. And she showed up with him at the inauguration. One of the reasons I'm sure she did is one, the truth, the tradition, which I'm sure she values that too. It keeps her relevant and the spotlight of America because love, hate, or indifferent, everyone's seeing you there.

1:31 So it keeps you relevant in top of mind. In case people forget you because you never really want people to forget you. So if it's my job to show up somewhere, shoot, I'm going to show up only so that I don't want people to forget me. Right. But also too, it was a great, great way to make sure that she was supporting her husband because he had to be there. So she was there to support her. Hillary Clinton was there to support bill. And I think that's really where that was the tough part there. Obama showed up by himself. First black president showed up by himself. First black first lady was, was absent.

2:14 So they couldn't even call her name. They, they, they couldn't say former president. Barack Obama, a number 44 along with first lady, Michelle, but they couldn't say that they just had to call his name. So she was not even in the, in the national discussion that day, she wasn't even in the national history because the video and the photos were all part of the national historical catalog that was being created that day. Aside from who the inauguration was for. She was, she would have been on video, she would have been photographed and history would have been made with her on that day. Man to Man 360 starts in three, two, one.

3:05 You've tuned into Man to Man 360, the show for men by men dealing with all subjects. The twist here is we come from a biblical worldview to encourage and empower men to make it in life through the power of Jesus Christ. Talking about everything you're talking about. Sometimes it's cool, and sometimes it's hidden. This is Man to Man 360.

3:46 Hey, welcome to a brand new episode of man to man 360. And I am your host, Daryl Anderson, and we are ready and locked and loaded for a brand new episode on today. An exciting one. I was going to do this one last week but I pushed it back to this week and I was going to delay it again. And I said, well, why keep delaying this? I want to jump right into it. And the controversy on this one, actually, even though this is man demand 360. Actually has to do with a woman or a wife, and it's the, the, the big to do about Michelle Obama, not showing up at the inauguration.

4:29 Now, one of the reasons that this is a big to do is my wife put a post out there about the former first lady not showing up and, and she thought that it was, you know a little unclassy of her to not show up to support her husband. Well, that turned into a huge firestorm for my wife in that post, because a lot of people responded for different reasons and different, different debates and different things like that, which is, you know, I guess that's partly why you put things out there, even though I don't think she was expecting all of that, not like I know she wasn't expecting all that because she's not really a debater type of person. I am, but she's not. So anyway, so she got a lot of different kickback and including people on this network here So So this is gonna be interesting.

5:17 This is gonna be good. So the perspective I'm gonna come from is directly what her original post was talking about in the first place and that is you know, was this Unclassy of her to not support her husband had nothing to do with politics or Republicans or Democrats or, or Trump or any of this stuff here, even though that's where everybody took it, but it really had nothing to do with it because I want to come to, I'm going to bring this part in. This perspective. Now, you may have heard us sort of jokingly touch upon this topic, topic on different episodes in the back in the day, in some of our original season, season one and season two, maybe even season three with the, with the all stars, where we would talk about black women and how they may.

6:12 You know, respond to the men in their lives, whether it be their boyfriends, their fiances, or even more specifically their husbands. And I wanted to bring another. Level of conversation in here that we can talk about because again, this has nothing to do with whether it's a Trump thing or whatever else it has everything to do with certain perceptions, you know, so for all of you who think, well, she didn't have to do this and she'd have to do that because of Trump or whatever. That's not what we're going to be talking about today. Because I think, I think People who say that are 100 percent missing the point and they're sort of delusional in the fact that they think that they can take the conversation somewhere where they're trying to avoid because they don't really want to deal with the real subject here.

6:58 So the real subject here is the first and so far the only black. President himself shows up at this traditionally, well, it's, it's, it's the nation's tradition. Every time there's an inauguration, former presidents and everybody show up as long as they're alive and they obviously show up with their wives, the first ladies in this case, the only black president shows up. He doesn't have a problem showing up, obviously, but he shows up by himself. And so where my wife is coming in on this is like, man, you know, you know, it doesn't have a good look because the same thing happened a few weeks ago, which had nothing to do with politics.

7:49 It was Jimmy Carter's funeral. Same thing happened there. So it couldn't have anything to do with. Politics or the Trump or any of that stuff, because it had nothing to do with him. It had everything to do with a president who had passed of the same party, by the way. And, you know, again, traditionally all presidents show up now, do they have to, maybe not, but they, they all did. And the only. Person not present was the first black first lady. So I want to bring up a couple of things here. And I, I went to my sidekick here chat GPT And I typed in a couple things here.

8:31 Are black women perceived as not following their husbands? That's what I gave AI. So Allen Iverson, I gave Allen Iverson that question or that comment, and I want to see what Allen Iverson was going to say about it. So this is some of the things Allen Iverson said, which these statements in and of themselves can be. Entire podcast by themselves. And to some degree, I think it was intended to do that, but it said the perception that black women do not follow their husbands is a stereotype rooted in historical and cultural narratives rather than reality. Let me pause right there for a minute, because I think to some degree it is a stereotype.

9:12 I do not believe that black women, or let me be, let me be specific here. I do not believe black wives. Do not follow their black husbands or any husbands for that matter. I'm not going to deal with black and black that black women who are married wives do not follow their husbands. I do believe that to some degree of stereotype, because I know for a fact that black women do follow their, their husbands. I mean, whether I'm speaking about my own. I might be, I'm also speaking about my own mother and, and my father. I can think of my grandparents, I can think of aunts and uncles.

9:54 And in all of these relationships, I don't remember. Because typically that's something that will stand out pretty loudly. I don't remember any of these situations being one where black women refuse to follow their husbands. So there is a stereotype there, but I think the stereotype is really coming from, and I'll let it speak for itself, black women. And in general, and how they may speak of certain things out loud. That's what I'm going to throw out there, but let's go ahead and finish the the, the, the statement. So anyway, the idea has been influenced by various factors, including media portrayals, which I, I a hundred percent think that's the majority of it.

10:38 Societal expectations and historical structures that sought to undermine black family dynamics. Okay, so the origins of the stereotype historical context during slavery, black families were often forcibly separated, leading to nontraditional family structures. If this was later weaponized to suggest that black women were independent to a fault and did not submit to their husbands. Now here, this part here is really interesting. I'm going to go to next. It says that the Moynihan report 1965 reinforced this by blaming black women's strength and independence for the struggle of black families.

11:21 Rather than acknowledging systemic racism and economic barriers. Now on that one, I'm going to have to dig a little further into that. Cause I'm not sure that that is the case. If through reports, they were seeing this. Black women's strength and independence, maybe it was black women's strength and independence rather than this systemic racism and economic barriers piece, because whether they're systemic racism and economic barriers or not, are you following your husband that that's that's the end result is, are you following your husband that that's that's the catch. Right. So that that's, that's that then secondly, on the origins of the stereotype, media and pop culture, black women are often portrayed as dominant, aggressive, or too strong in quotes in relationships, reinforcing the idea that they do not submit.

12:18 In quotes to their husbands, the strong black woman trope suggests that black women must be independent and self reliant sometimes at the expense of traditional marital roles. Now, let me stop there for a minute, because a lot of it, when it comes from, to sort of respect of media and pop culture, yeah, I mean, the thing about this part here. Is the fact that a lot of TV shows and movies and more and more TV shows and sitcoms and anything else have betrayed black women as aggressive, dominant too strong do not submit and all that over the years, you know, they just showed them as, you know, and where the, the man is sort of an in Imbecile.

13:04 And he's not that bright and, and he's got to be given orders and that kind of thing. So to some degree, but I, but I think I've seen that more and not just black women. I think I've seen that in just men and women overall. So I can't blame that part on, on just black women. I think through media, it always makes, and we've talked about this in former, former episodes of former seasons, past seasons, I should say, where. Men appear to be the butt of the jokes and women are always on top. So I don't necessarily agree that it's only a black thing, but that men are usually put in that spot, but you know, if it's a, if it's a black show, then obviously most times the black man falls in that as well.

13:47 I mean, one, one perfect example for me is the Jefferson's. George Jefferson in Wheezy in Florence, right? So George is You know, he's the breadwinner there. He owns the companies. He owns, he owns the business. He's got the money. He's rich. And his wife, Weezy. And then you got his maid, Florence. Now it's all funny and all that, but everybody seems to be outwitting George, including Florence, the maid, you know? So Again, that's part of the joke. That's part of what makes it funny. But at the end of the day, everybody seemed to be, especially with the women, they seemed to outsmart them.

14:28 Even, even the lady upstairs forgot her name. She was married to Tom I can't remember her name right now, but anyway, she was the sister that was married to Tom, who was the white guy. And it was a mixed couple. And or biracial couple, I should say. And so everybody sort of, you know was ahead of, of George, but I think that's mostly, again, mostly a guy thing in media and movies and whatnot. So, but anyway so the third part here is cultural and religious variation. So black families, like any other have diverse structures influenced by religious beliefs. Upbringing and personal values. Many black women value partnership, teamwork, and mutual respect in marriage rather than a one sided dynamic, which I agree, especially in this country.

15:15 I can't speak for the country. I've never lived outside of the U S but. I would have to agree with that. I would say that most women are, you know, value that partnership. Now, there's a lot of situations where they don't get that and, you know, and very subservient, especially in a very domineering relationship with a, with a very domineering man. That, that sets things off a little differently. This last point here is called reality versus perception. So the studies show that black women value marriage and strong relationships, though they may also prioritize equality and partnership over traditional submission.

15:58 I can see that economic and social factors sometimes place black women. And breadwinner, breadwinner roles leading to different relationship dynamics. The perception that black women do not quote unquote, follow their husbands often stems from expectations that they should be more subservient rather than recognizing that marriage can be an equal partnership. And the conclusion is the idea that black women do not follow their husbands is a stereotype that ignores the complexities of black relationships, black women, like all women. Navigate marriage based on personal values, love, respect, not rigid societal expectations.

16:40 And then Alan Iverson asked me, would you like to discuss a particular aspect of this topic? And I said, yeah, what is it meant by the strong black woman statement that was made earlier here? Allen Iverson goes in and says this, the strong black woman or the SBW, oh wow, they even have an acronym, the SBW is a cultural stereotype that portrays black women as inherently resilient and self sufficient and emotionally tough. Often to the point of self sacrifice, while this image can be empowering, it also comes with significant challenges and unrealistic expectations. And then we go into the origins and evolution.

17:22 I want to stop right there for a second. So that pretty much is giving you an overview of this whole conversation of black women appearing to be independent, too strong, and. not submissive or not following their husbands. I don't believe that what we just read there was really speaking to wives. I think that was mostly speaking to women, so for the most part, maybe single women or maybe women in relationships or, or something like that, but not necessarily in Marriages or as wives, and especially not of marriages that have lasted some time.

18:03 I don't, I don't necessarily believe that's the case because I think that, so, black women are very submissive. We'll pick up from there right after this. How many of you are ready for the man cave? The man cave is developed around, we call it the five pillars. There's praise and worship, where we sing a song or two, and really just, so, invite the presence of God in, get the guys singing and clapping and whatever, and really make a push on getting guys into the music.

18:45 Because typically guys like to avoid praise, or lifting of hands, or singing, and that type of stuff, so we really put a focus on that. And then we go right in from that into prayer, you know, intercession prayer. We ask guys if there's certain things that they want us to pray for, to agree with them in prayer for, wo, and we make sure to focus it on them. Sometimes guys will say, Hey, yes, and I got this neighbor and you pray for them and we're like, no, no, no. We want to know what is it that you need prayer for? Because, because you're the neighbor, that's your job to pray for your neighbor. From there, we actually. going to the competition part. Now that's the exciting part of the man cave. It just creates that competitive piece, makes it exciting, but it gets that testosterone, so bubbling up and everything else.

19:26 And there's a reason to that really too. I've been doing men's ministry now for almost 30 years. A lot of times men don't really have those men focused things at churches. So in some cases. To guys, it can feel a little, so, feminine or emasculating in some cases. And because of that, we want to make sure that there's a masculine feel to men's fellowship. It's both fun. It's inviting. It's also used as a fish bait to get guys out. The other reason that we do competition is so we can create two teams. And in creating two teams, we create a camaraderie between those guys. They stay on those teams for the duration. You don't go from second Friday to second Friday.

20:06 No, you're contacting guys in between guys, able to reach out. Guys are able to, Hey man, I'm really dealing with this thing. I'm struggling with this thing. So they can reach out to somebody. We go from the competition part and then we go into the work. We go into scripture. We, so, do some teaching and then we might. Breakout into breakout groups. The breakout groups allows guys to be able to, so answer some things or share their thoughts on those same tough topics that was just preached a few minutes ago. The word is, is a two headed sword. It cuts open things. It exposes us to ourselves, at least. so, to what's really happening on the inside or the things we've been trying to cover up and hide. And then we break from there and then we eat.

20:47 That's a great time to be able to dive in and just really see how guys are doing. Pastors and churches don't have a men's ministry. You're missing out on the opportunity to. Free that man from that thing. He's been trapped in that stronghold has been in his life. In his ministry allows him to be free, vulnerable, and then free.

21:49 Yeah, this is the funny thing. I asked about Michelle Obama, not showing up for her husband and. Alan Iverson responds with now, that's an interesting idea for an episode here. A few angles you could explore about Michelle Obama choosing not to attend the inauguration alongside her husband. One personal boundaries versus public duty. Okay. Now this gets interesting. This is from. Alan Iverson or AI. Explore the idea of Michelle Obama as her own person, separate from her role as the first lady. Why did she make the decision not to attend? Did it reflect a desire to reclaim some personal space after eight years in the public eye?

22:31 This could touch on the presence of public life I'm sorry, the pressures of public life and the balance between fulfilling public duties and maintaining personal boundaries. Number two behind the scenes the first family's inauguration traditions Break down the traditions of the inauguration day and examine how Michelle's absence might have singled Singled a shift in these traditions. Is this a break from the norm or perhaps a symbolic step to set her own precedence as a former first lady? Number three, reactions from the public and media.

23:12 Analyze the media reaction to her not attending. Did the public criticize her decision or was it understood as a personal choice? You could also dive into how this might have. impacted public perceptions of her relationship with her husband? Did it fuel any rumors, which it did, or did it reinforce her strong, independent image? Number four, the symbolism of a solo, quotes, solo Michelle Obama. Michelle has always been portrayed as a powerful, independent figure. There's those words again, was her absence, a deliberate act of setting boundaries or a subtle message about independence or prioritizing one's own needs over traditional roles.

23:57 This could also tie into her, her broader post white house career and public persona. Number five. What did Michelle Obama do instead? Well, you could also look into what Michelle did during that time. Was she at home spending time with the family? Did she have any public appearances or statements that offered context for her choice? This could lead into a discussion on what she's doing since leaving the white house, including her advocacy work. Book tours and her focus on her personal life. Well, that's bullcrap as far as that part, because these were special occasions the funeral and the inauguration.

24:38 So that you can, you know, anyway, number six comparing first ladies, a historical perspective. Number six, so take a broader view and compare Michelle Obama's decision with those of previous first ladies did other first ladies attend or skip inaugurations? What might that tell us about changing roles and expectations for women in politics? This could help frame Michelle's absence as part of a broader cultural shift. Sure Okay, number seven the psychological and emotional toll of public life the more Introspective angle could delve into the mental and emotional toll of being in the public eye for so long.

25:22 Could Michelle, could Michelle's decision reflect a desire to step back from the intensity of politics and take a breath after her husband's presidency? Interviews with other political figures, psychologists, and cultural experts could offer insight into how the relentless demands of the role Might affect a person's mental health. Number eight, the Obama's relationship, a team or two individuals discussion, discuss the dynamic. I'm sorry, discuss the dynamic between Michelle and Barack Obama. Did her decision reflect any tension or differences in how they viewed the role of First Lady and First Husband?

26:11 Or did it show the deep trust and respect they have for one another's individual needs and paths? This could also explore Their partnership after leaving office and how they've each continued to carve out their individual careers while supporting each other nine, could it be a political statement was Michelle Obama's I'm sorry, was Michelle's Transcribed Absence, a statement in itself, perhaps a subtle critique of the new administration or reflection of her desire to maintain distance from a political spotlight. This angle could dig into whether this was a quiet form of activism or simply a personal choice.

26:54 This could. And the episode by discussing whether her decision had lasting impact, or if it's ultimately been overshadowed by larger events, how do people view Michelle Obama's post first lady life now, and did this moment play a role in shaping that narrative to any of these angles stand out to you, or is there a particular direction you want to take? Well, that's actually Alan and Iris talking to me on that last part. So I think those were some good points brought out. I think those are things that people had been talking about anyway and putting out there. Now whether these.

27:35 This relationship thing is real. See, if this relationship thing is real, then all of this stuff goes out the window. None of this meant a thing. If they're splitting up, or if there's an affair, or someone else is in the picture, all that other stuff goes out the window, as far as what we just talked about there. If there's some kind of relationship thing going on, all that will go out the window. So that part, we don't know at this point, you know, again, like I said, hopefully it's not the case that there's a you know, a relationship going on here with Obama and the actress, but I don't know it, it could, it could come out in, in days or a month from now and prove that there was something going on there.

28:20 So I guess we'll find out, but. You know the main thing there, I just want to talk about, you know, those, those are things, unfortunately, society has put out there and as far as how women should respond to things, but I think that. At the end of the day, the good part about it that A. I. And the media don't don't reflect on is that black women are not strong and independent in their relationship. They we depend on each other. They have their strengths. We have our strengths, and they're very supportive overall. And I think the reason black marriages have had such low divorce rates over the years is because of black women's support of their families, of their husbands first and the rest of the family.

29:10 So I think that all of that we read tonight does not necessarily reflect husbands or wives. Black wise, I should say it may reflect some other areas, which I believe, but not necessarily that a black wise, while at the same time they have their strong opinions where I, you know, I, I, I'm gonna stop using the word strong. They have their opinions, like anybody, they have their opinions, strong, sort of adds another oomph to it. And I'm not sure we would use the word strong on every woman. So I'm going to say they have their opinions. They, they have their values and their views. And they want that shared with their husbands or significant others. I'll say that much, right?

29:51 Now the origins and evolution of the strong black woman stereotype has historically rooted in in the survival and resilience of black women throughout slavery, segregation, and systemic oppression. Over time, it evolved into a social expectation that black women must always be. And the list four things here, emotionally resilient, independent and self sufficient, caregivers, and nurturers. Hardworking and overachieving. Now, I will say this, I will add this part to it. I believe that those things, they're especially the independent and sufficient. And self sufficient along with hardworking and overachieving some of those, some of those things they fell into, you know, if it's a, if it's a single mother, for example, where there was someone there, but then that person left or left her alone to raise, raise a family, take care of a home and all those types of things.

30:43 So she had to become those things. But let me say this much too. And we've talked about this on. Several episodes in the past, they let Alan Iverson is only going by what he's pulling up from the internet. I'm going to pull up from what I know in reality in the real world, by the way, just in case some of you missed Alan Iverson is just the name I give AI or chat GPT who gave us this information today. Okay, so that's Alan Iverson. So Alan Iverson, maybe Alan Iverson wasn't around to see that all the TV shows and movies, especially in the nineties.

31:24 I remember the nineties real good where everything was about the strong and independent black woman. That was the, that was the theme, the strong and independent black woman. I'm not sure how many men needed or wanted strong women. I'm not sure how many men wanted or needed independent women. And I'm definitely not sure how many. Men wanted strong and independent women. Then, at that time, you had the whole, I don't need a man, mentality that was out there. I could do bad all by myself. See, all that stuff was out there.

32:05 So, Allen Iverson didn't pick up any of that stuff. But, but, but I remember it, we see, we lived in that world where all that stuff was out there. And so it wasn't that black women were in that, that that's where they were. It was that it was being preached to them. All of the time. Now I'm going to go back to another episode that I, I've talked a lot about. And this was probably in season three. And this was the Oprah Winfrey Oprah Winfrey effect. Go back to season three. You'll find it. It's back there somewhere.

32:46 I think it's called the Oprah Winfrey effect. I think. But that time when the Oprah Winfrey show first came out and she was known as the male basher and all those kind of things, and she was women empowerment, the which, you know, hey, listen, to some degree that that's, that's cool. Well, woman, man bashing is never cool. But the whole thing about. Women empowerment and all that that was her whole shtick. That was her whole thing even to this day, right? the the problem though is It was always one sided. No one was ever Empowering men see, especially when you talk about in the black community, I don't remember all the, that's why when we got involved with men's ministry and all that, I just, I used to always say, even when we launched the show, I used to always say, I don't remember anybody empowering men young men or just men in general, but everybody, every TV show, every movie, every, every.

33:44 Yeah. Public speaker, everybody was empowering women and it was so one sided that when men would speak up, they would be shut down. So it became a one sided conversation that the women must be, and especially, I have to say this, it was especially put out as if the black woman has to be held up high and no one else. And so what the perception was starting to come out that the black woman was hailed as the queen, regardless of whether she had a king or not, and that men, especially black men, were sometime were all full of blank, blank, blank, blank, blank. What some people call sugar honey and I won't finish the rest, right?

34:28 But that was the perception. And I remember that those things now it was way past earlier than the 90s, but it was the 90s when I think some of that stuff was really prevalent and very, very popular. So you got this thing about Michelle Obama, not showing up with their husband, the former president. Now, by the way, I want, I want to make this statement to the only way Michelle Obama is relevant is because of Obama. The only reason she's relevant. The only reason we even know her name or care about her or anything is because of who she was married to.

35:13 So Obama, I'm sorry, Barack Obama made her a household name. If there was no Barack Obama, there would be no Michelle Obama in the public sphere. So we wouldn't really care what she showed up to, where she went and any of that stuff. Who cares? Nobody cares. And to some degree, I think people still don't care because it's, it's him where people are the most interested in. So when and this is where my wife was getting to and I 100 percent agree with her on this So let's suppose some of the some of you who thought that well, she she didn't have to go you Shaking your head.

35:57 She didn't have to go because she didn't have to support Trump and tum tum bum and all that Yeah, but he showed up see Barack showed up See, President Obama showed up. I want to show you guys something. It's called the double edged sword, strength versus burden. The positive aspects of all of this is encourages self confidence, perseverance, and leadership. And women recognizes the resilience of black women throughout history. And thirdly promotes empowerment and independence. Now I'm not sure independence promoting independence was a positive aspect when you're dealing with wives.

36:37 I really don't, I'm really not necessarily agreement with that in agreement with that, but here are the negative aspects, discourages, vulnerability, making it harder to seek emotional support contributes to this super woman. Scheme, schema, is that schema where black women feel pressured to do everything without help can lead to mental health struggles, depression, anxiety, stress, because expressing weakness is often stigmatized. I'm not sure about that. When it comes to women anyway, used to justify lack of support, partners, employers, society, examples, assuming black women can handle it at all, those are some of the negative aspects and that's the double edged sword.

37:23 Of all of this the impact on relationships and society in romantic relationships, the stereotype can create tension as black women may be expected to carry the emotional and financial burden alone. In healthcare, black women's pain and mental health struggles are often dismissed because they're seen as strong and in the workplace, expected to work harder and achieve more while receiving less recognition. Not really sure on that one. I'm going to move on from those because I'm not, I'm not feeling those right now. So now I'm going down to this part here where it's talked about the pressure to be the provider and the protector, because that's a problem right there.

38:04 There's, there's, there's a pressure to be the provider and the protector now. When she is a single woman that there may be that I mean, I believe that that is the case, but if we're talking about women with husbands, then I don't see that as why would that be the pressure to be the provider and the protector unless you're not. You know, there's something wrong with the guy, right? So how it affects the relationship. Cause so, so, so how it affects relationships is assuming that there's somebody else there. Black women may feel they have to carry the emotional, financial and mental load in the relationship leading to exhaustion. Okay, I can partly get that. Black men may feel unneeded or undervalued if they perceive their partner is as overly independent.

38:52 True. It can create power struggles where both partners struggle to find balance between leadership and submission. Okay. The possible benefits some black men admire and respect strong independent women. Yes, there are men that respect strong and independent women. I'll go this far and say this too, that there are men who look for women to support them financially pay everything, buy everything, and basically live off of them. I think. Part of that is that the second possible benefit is when balance, it creates a partnership based on mutual respect and teamwork rather than outdated gender roles.

39:35 Now, to some degree, I can agree with that. You know, when the two are doing their thing together, you know, and, and, and there were, and they're doing it together in a, in an agreed state. I can believe that now the potential, the potential issues, some men feel emasculated. Or believe they are not leading the relationship. I see. I can get that. And some women may struggle with allowing vulnerability, making emotional intimacy harder to achieve. That that part is true as well. How do you guys feel about that? Right. And take the, take the Trump part out, take, well, he didn't go and he didn't go to the inauguration last year. Well, he's the president and.

40:15 I mean, last time I should say, and there were some reasons why he didn't go and couldn't go. And to be quite honest with you especially since the, the whole January 6th thing that they put out there. So there was some reason why he couldn't show up. It would have been too much of a distraction, but see, we're not, but see, that's the president not showing up. That's not the first lady. And see, that's what my wife is getting that too. People kept throwing that stuff out there, which is a stupid argument. You know, what I found interesting though. Was the fact that Hillary Clinton was at that same event. And you would have to guess that she of all people hates, well, publicly, she probably hates him.

40:58 I don't know if she hates him privately privately, she probably hates Trump. She was beaten by him in an election. But more importantly, this is the, this is the thing. Her husband, while he was in office, humiliated her during a, one of the biggest scandal in our American history. And she even talked about, you know, her standing by her man, which she talked about it, but she actually did stand by him and what, 30 years later, she's still standing by him.

41:42 So she's still there and she showed up with him at the inauguration. One of the reasons I'm sure she did was one, the tradition, which I'm sure she values that too. It keeps her relevant. And the spotlight of America, because love, hate, or indifferent, everyone's seeing you there. So it keeps you relevant and top of mind in case people forget you, because you never really want people to forget you. So if it's my job to show up somewhere, shoot, I'm going to show up only so that I don't want people to forget me. Right? But also too, it was a great, great way to make sure that she was supporting her husband because he had to be there.

42:29 So she was there to support her. Hillary Clinton was there to support Bill. And I think that's really where that was the tough part there. Obama showed up by himself. First black president showed up by himself. First black first lady was was absent. So they couldn't even call her name. They they couldn't say former President Barack Obama number 44 Along with first lady Michelle, but they couldn't say that they just had to call his name So she was not even in the in the national discussion that day.

43:10 She wasn't even in the national history because the video and the photos were all part of the national historical catalog that was being created that day. Aside from who the inauguration was for, she was, she would have been on video. She would have been photographed. And his story would have been made with her on that date. Now, let's go to some of the things that, well, I'm going to turn off Allen Iverson because I didn't put this part in and let's get right to it. So there's another part that that's come up. I'm not going to talk too much about it because all this is speculation. But at this point, since that time, and since my wife put that post out about.

43:56 We're not showing up and everybody coming up with these political answers. It sounds like there might be something that has nothing to do with politics, nothing to do with Trump, nothing to do with the inauguration. It may have something to do with the relationship itself. And I want to be on record saying this. This is where it, to me, it gets a little bit more on the sadder side. To see relationships, if there, if it's true that there may be some trouble as far as maybe a possible split up or divorce, excuse me, a possible split up or divorce, that part becomes a whole lot sadder because that's one thing you don't really want to see. You don't want to see anyone divorcing and especially in the case of this couple here, you don't want to see them split up in divorce, become two single people.

44:44 That part is sad, whether you like them, you like him or not. That part to me is sad. Now, I will also go on record to say this much. It's the rumor is going out that, you know, Barack Obama has some relationship with I don't know why I'm forgetting her name all of a sudden the the Jennifer Aniston, that's a Jennifer Aniston, the actress, if that part is true, I'm almost going to start going to need to side with. Michelle on this one, because that's, it's like, Oh, come on, bro, you know, we're stepping out on a wife if it's a situation with cheating, but I don't know, because if, if they just decided to leave or decide to split, and now he started a relationship, then that's a little different.

45:33 Or if she left them and say, I'm out of here, you know, I'm honest, I'm done with this relationship. I'm sending the papers and then he decides to get with somebody, then it's a little different, but at the end of the day. Divorce is not, it's never a good thing to see with any couple. And obviously I don't believe there was any abuse or anything like that here. So that part becomes a little bit more sadder. And especially because it is the first black couple that's that's in, that was you know, the president and the first lady of the United States of America. So that part, that's pretty sad. So did she not show up because of that?

46:16 Well, man I don't know. I mean, I, I, I, a part of me says until your divorce show up and they stay relevant heck of anything, they're going to all, the world's going to turn on him before they turn on her. If it's a situation of infidelity or something like that, so she would gain the sympathy of nothing else if she would have still showed up and he's doing her bad in some kind of way. So you saying, well, what, what, why, what does this have to do with man to man 360? Well, two things, one, I want to bring up that conversation of, of you know, it's out there as for, and we talked about a lot on here on whether, you know, do black women support or.

47:07 Submit to the black leadership or black men or their husbands and the truthful answer is yes, they do There are some that don't and those marriages don't last long or they get pretty nasty or pretty ugly But the truth of the matter is I believe that most of most black Women and black marriages, or should I say most black women in marriages are submissive to their husbands because if they're not, then those marriages don't last very long. So the ones that last, I believe that yes, for the most part, black women do. So I'm not going to put that lie on and say that black women do not honor or submit to their husbands. Now, I will say those who are not married, that might be a different story.

47:51 That might be a different story because that whole strong, independent black woman thing that might, that might affect people who were bamboozled into thinking that that was truth. That that's the problem with that whole thing. And I hate when people keep using the word that, you know, she's strong or she's independent. Either one of those two or both of them is, is kryptonite. It's, it's, it's dynamite. And I think we got to stop using them. I'm let. Unless the person is trying to be both things, one or both things, if they're trying to be strong and independent, don't need a man and all that, well then let the chips fall where they may, but I just don't see that and most men are not seeing that as some Attribute to be known as either one of those two or those two things together.

48:40 So that's the main reason I want to share that. And then number two, I think the other reason why I want to, well, I think it's fitting on man to man 360 is because at the end of the day you know, we know our roles and that last thing there in the chat GPT that talks about provider protector that goes against. What we believe that, that men are supposed to do themselves, they're supposed to be the provider and the protector, not the wife. It's supposed to be that husband, that father, that man, even if they're not married yet, that man is supposed to be, well, he's not going to be the provider per se, but he is at least some form of protection or protector.

49:23 So yeah. Yeah. So some of the roles get a little mixed up and mucked up there, but I, but I hope that these two are, are as far as in their relationship, I don't care about their politics much. But as far as the relationship, I hope that all is well and that whatever is going on, they can get those things right. And that that's a couple that can stay together, you know, so I'll leave it that that's pretty much all I want to talk about on that. But listen, let us know. What you think of the show, add your piece. Did I miss anything there? so and again, Allen Irish brought a lot of these points up, but hey, let's see. So hit us up.

50:05 Go to Man to man three sixty.com. That's man the number two man three sixty.com. And there's where you can share the show and let us know what you think of the show. And, so guess what? We'll see you next week. And I am out this episode of Man to Man 360 is a wrap. But you can check us out next week, wherever you get your podcast and listen on demand to earlier or exclusive content. Visit us at man to man 360. com. That's man. The number two man 360. com. This is an ambassador media production.